Thoughts, lessons, and theology from an eclectic witch from a varied background.

Thursday, October 29, 2015

Interlude: Regarding the commotion of Atheist Pagan stuff.

I am taking a moment to step away from my preferred presentation of the functional knowledge of witchcraft and the basics of devotional relationships with the Divine. I suspect that many of my new readers are here because of a certain big name atheist pagan blogger's upset with myself and my previous post. I knew that weighing in on atheist pagans was going to net me some attention but I did not anticipate this. It was not my intention, as much as it was an effort draw attention to the hostility that has been directed towards just about everyone who doesn't agree.

Because I am sure many of you are curious as to my feelings on the push back that is happening in my direction. I am sure that there is a great deal of interest as to how I am going to respond and what I may add to the 'fight' going on via the blogosphere. I do have something to say on this and it is very simple.

I am a devotional polytheist. I am a mystic and a seer. The fact that other people may claim that I am not these things or declare that I am deluded is just something that is going to happen. Their opinions are not made true with how loudly or viciously they declare them. I wasn't aware of the kerfluffle until some associates of mine mentioned that I had managed to ruffle some feathers. I didn't think much of it until I saw Ms. Krasskrova's post in defense of myself.

I had two responses to this knowledge. First, I admit it, I was amused and surprised. In the grand scheme of things, I am not a major player of any fashion. I am simply an opinionated person who is working to establish themselves in their chosen profession, writing. So, I must take a moment to thank Mr. Halstead for his unintentional promotion of my work. If he wishes to continue to take up criticism and spiteful comments regarding myself, so be it. I will sit back and let him make people curious about what I really have to say. In the end, he is doing a significant amount of promotional work for me.

So, thank you Mr. Halstead. I am sure this is not what you intended. Nor do I think you intended to amuse me with your antics, but you have immensely. You have claimed that the gods are 'sad and small' but your very loud protestations do not speak well of your position. I am mildly concerned that you may have some insecurities on these matters because of how hostile your responses are. I would advise you to pray and meditate upon what troubles you so much about this, but I know that you believe such actions are useless or masturbatory. Do what you must to soothe your troubled breast. I sincerely hope that this gives you the catharsis you seek and restores some degree of peace.

My second response to this matter is to draw attention to the 'loudness' of these cries. Something that I learned years ago is that when someone feels they can not win an argument, they attempt to intimidate their opponent into silence with the volume and viciousness of their attacks. I encourage everyone to note this and question it. Why would someone who is supposedly so secure in their position become nigh hysterical at the first sign of opposition? Especially when this opposition comes from a relatively unknown source with very little weight in the social set that you move in. It is curious and questionable.

I invite Mr. Halstead to have an open and reasoned discussion upon the matter. It is possible that I have misunderstood what Atheist Pagan means. I invite him to explain how his position is different from Secular Humanism. I invite him to inform me as to how I misinterpreted the information he has presented. Please, Mr. Halstead, explain to me how calling my gods 'sad and small' is part of a respectful debate or discussion? From my vantage point, I see only insults given and opinion being bandied about.

Opinion is not the same as fact. Conjecture is not the same as fact. I would have thought that those who were engaged in serious philosophical discussion of these matters would have recognized this. I would have assumed that someone who has even a passing acquaintance with the rudimentary concepts of theology would have preferred to keep the discussion upon established topics, such as the existence of the gods, rather than devolving their argument into mere accusations.

My assertions that the power players within the Atheist Pagan community's public arena have taken virulent and hostile positions against polytheists (and theists at large) within the pagan community are only given additional weight by the aggressive response. If you wish to prove me wrong, conduct your discussion in such a manner where you can do so.

Until that time, I continue to stand by my positions from earlier.*


* I would like it noted that I do not believe that all Atheist Pagans are like Mr. Halstead. I am sure that there is a sizeable population who are far more reasonable in their bearing and demeanor. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that they may disagree with Mr. Halstead's chosen methodology of expressing his positions. I ask those Atheist Pagans who are of a more reasonable demeanor to speak up. Please, do not allow a minority who are clearly not a representative of your collective body present as your public face. Show us who you are. We are our deeds.


  1. What exactly was "spiteful", "vicious", "hysterical", about this response? (linked below)

    If anything was spiteful, it was your original post.

    But if you are referring to my admittedly spiteful comment calling Lucius a sad little person with sad little gods, that was directed to him not you, and was in response to a post where he called my children trolls. If you want to lump yourself in with the likes of him, that's on you.

    In any case, I have responded to explain how my "position" is different from Secular Humanism. (see the link above) I welcome your comments.

  2. Oh, and you're welcome for your 15 minutes of fame.

  3. As my blog was quoted in your initial post, I'd be glad to add my two cents' worth here. I've been largely silent on the matter since my initial blog, and I was surprised to see it quoted three years after the fact. I certainly don't consider myself hostile to polytheists or theists in general. However, I will say that I have difficulty with fundamentalists who believe their way is the only way - whether they be theists or atheists, Pagans, Christians, Muslims or whoever. One point of my original post was to argue that Pagan atheists have long had a place in the larger Pagan community and should be accorded the same respect offered to Pagans of other stripes, including such various beliefs as agnostics, animists, pantheists, Christo-Pagans, eclectics, Wiccans, etc. We should all be free to elucidate and share our beliefs with one another in an atmosphere in which we can learn from one another. No one has a monopoly on truth. If we start believing we do, we stop learning. That, to me, is the greatest tragedy.